The Coaches Group Chat
Grab a drink and a seat at the table with hosts Matt Houlihan, Arielle Houlihan and Chad Gordon as we chat about the world of volleyball, coaching, business, and whatever else Arielle feels like!
The Coaches Group Chat
S2E11: Weekend Upsets, Foreign Roster Caps, Long Beach v. Hawaii, KBB to LOVB
The NCAA's back-to-back scheduling format deflates the impact of big upsets by forcing immediate rematches, preventing storylines from developing and limiting media coverage opportunities.
• The weekend featured multiple top-5 upsets including CSUN over Hawaii, UC San Diego over UC Irvine, and GCU over UCLA
• Back-to-back scheduling forces teams to play the same opponent twice in consecutive days, eliminating the buildup between matchups
• The upcoming 18-man roster cap will significantly impact recruitment strategies and player movement between programs
• International players dominate many starting lineups in NCAA men's volleyball, raising questions about American player development
• American volleyball development lags behind European counterparts that use academy systems with more frequent, specialized training
• Hawaii vs. Long Beach State this weekend is the most anticipated matchup of the regular season with major NCAA tournament implications
• The coaches predict Long Beach will likely win at least one match, with Nikolov expected to excel in the high-pressure environment
Join us for a potential live stream "Manning Cast" style commentary during the Hawaii vs. Long Beach matches this weekend!
Chad called as his out for the year the back-to-back where you play the same team twice. Oh yeah, You're so right, it's the worst. Can you imagine if Irvine beat Long Beach and then for three weeks?
Arielle Houlihan:We all got to talk about it.
Chad Gordon:You get these great matches and it's like boom, exclamation mark, awesome. And then you wake up 12 hours later and you're like oh.
Matt Houlihan:The air is out of the bubble.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, close that book.
Arielle Houlihan:The air is out of the bubble. Yeah, close that book. Welcome to the Coaches Group Chat. We might be visual, we might be just audio.
Matt Houlihan:We are so back.
Arielle Houlihan:We'll never know.
Matt Houlihan:Well, we will know now we're going to know in probably the next 45 minutes, if this recording goes well. Goes well.
Arielle Houlihan:If I need to use the backup recording tbd, we're having a lot of technical difficulties this season, but it's because, honestly, matt's fired our producers so many times and now we don't have one our voluntary producer all of our voluntary producers have decided. Jackson is producing today's episode.
Matt Houlihan:Therefore, it will be the best episode ever recorded.
Arielle Houlihan:Bob's not here. Bobby's not here.
Chad Gordon:Bobby Hobby. Hobby is not here. Hobby's in Puerto Rico.
Arielle Houlihan:And Cousin Greg is not here.
Matt Houlihan:I forgot to text Cousin Greg. Honestly, Cousin Greg would 100% be there. I told him it's an open invitation, but I know Cousin Craig needs me to actually text him each time. Yeah, okay, at least for the second one so that he knows it's actually true. That's on me, kyle, my bad.
Arielle Houlihan:Well, we have nobody here right now, sorry.
Matt Houlihan:Just out at him like that Got it. We had a heck of a weekend, though.
Arielle Houlihan:It was a wild weekend. The Coach's Group chat was actually kind of popping off a little bit was actually kind of popping off a little bit.
Chad Gordon:we were like wait, what, huh who where we're?
Arielle Houlihan:talking about our offside, nicky glazer. Oh yeah, we were all together too.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, no, I'm talking, I'm talking the we got c sun we got. Great cannon, we got uci you got it the top five, besides, long beach went down yeah, it was a, it was a typical april.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, it really is.
Matt Houlihan:Honestly, I mean it was a little more, a little more atypical in the sense of how many of them lost. But this is a typical time where you got some schools that are like get going into break or finals or tests, whatever it may be, or just bored, and it's the yeah, it's the, it's the slog part of the season. You're not at you. You're not at playoffs yet You're not at the conference tournaments. You're not in the championship tournament.
Arielle Houlihan:The weather's still kind of medium.
Chad Gordon:The dog days. The dog days.
Matt Houlihan:Shout out to Jackson. Yeah, but we had a number of huge upsets.
Arielle Houlihan:Okay, so first one.
Matt Houlihan:First one was I can list them off for us. You guys want to go over what was your, what was?
Arielle Houlihan:the first one that we watched CSUN versus Hawaii. Yeah, CSUN Hawaii was the first one. Matt was peeing his pants watching it.
Matt Houlihan:I was. I posted about it, but I had called this upset literally December 27th. I was like there's no way Hawaii goes unscathed in the Matadome. They're going to lose one for sure, and sure enough to lose one for sure, and sure enough. Big sweep from the matadors. Uh, joao avila, who I incorrectly labeled as float serve jesus had himself the match of a lifetime. He could do no wrong. It was hysterical. Everything he touched turns to gold. Yeah, it was good stuff.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, um were all of these upsets? Were every single one of these upsets, the home team? Yes, they all were home teams that's funny yeah, all our home team everyone's like man, we gotta travel again, like the nuance of traveling is like not there anymore.
Chad Gordon:It's like I gotta get on a irvine had to go all the way to san diego, I mean, yeah, it's like the travel trips it's the travel trip you did call this out early, earlier in the year.
Matt Houlihan:So like last week I was talking to him. I told Ariel in the car one day I was like man chat what Chad called as his out for the year the back to back where you play the same team twice. Oh yeah, you're so right it. Can you imagine if Irvine beat Long Beach and then for three weeks?
Arielle Houlihan:We all got to talk about it.
Matt Houlihan:Irvine gets to ride that high.
Chad Gordon:Years ago.
Arielle Houlihan:Years ago, we could talk about it.
Matt Houlihan:Just like everyone's doubting Long Beach, you got. This whole storyline develops Same with CSUN Hawaii. Same with all of these.
Arielle Houlihan:It's like you could talk about it for a while. I get Hawaii.
Matt Houlihan:I get Hawaii on the back. Sure sure You're not changing. Change the long beach, irvines, the sea, the san diego's like all of those that would be so much better. If, hey, you have that travel partner, you have a huge upset against long beach and then you don't, you don't see each other for another three weeks it would just be better for the lore 100 for for the, just for the media coverage of it yeah, the men's volleyball media coverage is.
Chad Gordon:It's just thirsting for something.
Matt Houlihan:They are shooting us in the foot.
Chad Gordon:We're trying to do something here, come on and you get these great matches and it's like boom, exclamation mark, awesome. And then, like you wake up 12 hours later like, oh well the area, the air is out of the bubble yeah, close that book all right, well see you guys next year I guess like yeah, it's, it's just a bummer, um, and then you get these weird things right.
Chad Gordon:So like the the sc uh, where where dylan klein goes down. And then you get these weird things right. So like the the sc uh, where dylan klein goes down and then doesn't play night two yeah and then they lose, right like you.
Chad Gordon:Just, you get some of these weird things where, depending on who you were playing at the right time, these things are going to affect seating for conference, you know, tournaments and and all this kind of stuff. It's just, it's just weird. I mean, it saves money and I know that's a a big thing, of course, but it's a bummer competitively and media-wise for sure storyline-wise.
Matt Houlihan:I think there's a balanced approach. You take the Hawaiians, you take the Grand Canyons, you take the BYUs. You're traveling out of state. Okay, even Stanford and Menlo now they're travel partners. So you hit Stanford, you hit Menlo, you hit both, you hit Menlo, you hit both, and then the next trip when they come down to you. It's an easy balance in those situations that was when it stopped.
Arielle Houlihan:It was when they cut Pacific. They cut Pacific, and that was right after that. That's when they stopped doing the double Right because it made sense.
Matt Houlihan:And now there's Travel.
Arielle Houlihan:Buddy again. Can we stop with this?
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, bring it back so that you can adjust it. So, when you have those like quote unquote teams that are on an island, there's no travel partner form, okay, you play back to back with them, but everyone else, we split it right, you're, it's there, and then three, four weeks later in the season however, it needs to be scheduled out you're playing them again at your place so that we actually can have some, some build up, rather than literally all the air comes out of the sails. Uh, when we have, when you have that head to head, because all of those, all these, these big upsets were immediately vindicated right the following minus usc, usc pepperdine, where it was literally an injury.
Matt Houlihan:That was the primary cause there. So I mean, yeah, you had gcu ucla big sweep and then a fifth, you know five setter ucla rebounds the following evening. Okay, that's, I think that's a good one.
Arielle Houlihan:That's gcu at their place, senior night that was the only one that I didn't watch was that first green canyon game with ucla. Did you watch that one?
Chad Gordon:I. I went back when I was like, oh shoot, they're up to. Oh, all right, I'll stick around a little bit. I mean, it's just on one of the monitors and it it just was kind of sloppy from from both sides a little bit like no one was like really it just it didn't look super clean.
Matt Houlihan:It did kind of have that spring break dog day yes, kind of kind of feel to it and gcu probably got the bump right just being at being at home there, yeah yeah also, I mean it looked a little chirpy to me, uh, with the return of cameron thorne, perfect, um, yeah, yeah, I mean I, I I went back and watched on volumetric so it's tough to get a feel for, like, what were the vibes inside the building during that matchup from the bird's eye camera view? But yeah, I mean I'm sure there was some GCU motivation there to take care of business. And obviously there was one clip that they posted where they got a solo block on Thorne and there were some words exchanged and you see Thorne, like with the look back. I was block on Thorne and there were some words exchanged and you see Thorne with the look back. I was like Thorne's going off on night two.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm calling it right now. How do you play on night two?
Matt Houlihan:Good enough to win. I don't know how the stat line, but yeah, I just saw that. Look, I was like, yeah, he's probably poking a bear a little bit there.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, I mean, I think rankings wise right, like for me. That was why ucla dropped yeah, more than some of these other guys, because like, yeah, hey, you got swept and then you barely won right, you squeaked one out too right. It's not like again someone's coming off injury or any big changes. It's like you're supposed to beat this team and you know not, not really that tight.
Matt Houlihan:So for me, you, I mean usc losing with no klein was an immediate like yeah, like not even a wash, like not even holding it against them um, when they got them, they got them the first night, right, everybody that's lost.
Chad Gordon:Night one was like all right shit, guys like here we go. Yeah right, sc lost 50 of their offense night one it's like oh okay, yeah, understandable exactly so that's why.
Matt Houlihan:That's why I think all three of us bumped USC up to two in the trader poll ranking and yeah, I mean, if Klein's healthy, they are legitimately worthy of that number two spot and I'm interested to see them. I would love to see them versus Long Beach matchup. I'm sure that's a very real potential for a NCAA tournament matchup.
Arielle Houlihan:This might make things hard for editing because I'm throwing for a loop. Tournament matchup this might make things hard for editing because I'm throwing for a loop a little bit, but who do you think is the most improved team so far this year? Nobody prepared for this, so that's why I said that.
Matt Houlihan:If I'm remembering correctly, a lot of us said USC when we did our prediction episode at the very beginning, usc was one of the first ones, just because where they finished where was like our. When we did our prediction episode at the very beginning, usc was one of the first ones, just because where they finished where they should be.
Arielle Houlihan:But we also had the talk of like expectation of the having top recruiting classes back to back and underperforming I wouldn't say improved.
Matt Houlihan:So I mean, yeah, I mean, but USC would be the most improved right now. In comparison, they're the number two beginning of the when we started this season to right now on who's playing.
Chad Gordon:well, I like San Diego right now.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, san Diego's a good one, gcu's a good one, gcu's trending up, san Diego trending up, yeah, I mean there's a lot of good that's come from there that you've had, like even Santa Barbara right, getting two big wins, getting two big wins against csun. They're moving up, I would say the santa barbara is gonna get two wins.
Arielle Houlihan:They should be getting more. Like that's not a. That to me isn't a like they've improved. I'm like bianchi is getting back in like there's a reason why they're getting those wins, but like and they were doing.
Chad Gordon:They were doing well at the beginning right, they hadn't played a lot of good matches but like they were, they were running.
Arielle Houlihan:They were supposed to be running, yeah, and then he steps out, and now it's, I just mean, like trajectory, wise, like what loyola.
Matt Houlihan:Probably I put loyola chicago in there as well. Right, they've they, but they've been steady and consistent the whole way they had still just two losses, right, I thought green can you lost I thought, green, can you just garbage at the?
Arielle Houlihan:I think they're okay right now. Yeah, like I think they're better than they were before.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, they definitely. Were more definitely on a up and to the right trajectory, rather than some of our, some of the other counterparts. So, I mean like BYU has been pretty up and down but they're starting to steady out a little bit. Stanford started good and they've like bottomed and you've got, yeah, there's a bunch of mixture. Mckendree's been pretty good, but they had the two bad weekends.
Arielle Houlihan:It's hard to get through a conference without a bad weekend. I don't care what team you are. Even. Long Beach took a loss. There's nobody that's just unhittable.
Matt Houlihan:It's the any given Sunday, right, any given night in these top conferences. That's one of the cool things from this weekend that you can kind of take away is the parity between has gotten smaller. Right, like the overall level of teams across the country is high enough where if you have a bad night, they'll beat you. There's still plenty of. There's still plenty of teams like that Long beach could have a bad night and they're still going to beat. Maybe they lose a set. Right, like they went five with Pepperdine early on in the season. Pepperdine is a top 10 team but even still then that was a that was a match that you would think that if Long Beach played that 10 times, they're probably sweeping or going four sets and seven of them right, maybe they lose one.
Arielle Houlihan:I think that there's a difference between club tournaments and the longevity of a college season. When you're at club tournaments, you've got beginning, middle end in such a short span of time, and so the top teams are going to get there at the end. And, yes, the same thing goes for this of the top teams are going to get there at the end, but there's so much time that these kids have to wake up every single day and go to practice, and the longevity of this is so taxing on them. And so the April lulls are just so expected at this point. Yeah, yeah I, the April lulls are just so expected at this point.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, yeah, I mean also yeah, there's a. There's a couple of different factors to even even think about it, like with the way a collegiate match is set up, it's best of best of five. The top team is supposed to win in those situations the majority of them it used to be where they played, do played. Do you guys remember when ncaa men's volleyball played to 30 rather than 25, like same idea? It was like they wanted. They wanted to alleviate some of that, those big swings. We're in a club tournament. It's like best of three, anyone can beat anybody in those games.
Chad Gordon:What happened in the 41 minutes? Yeah, we didn't. We didn't warm up well in our five minutes we were reffing the match before it happens.
Arielle Houlihan:All the time that one versus three at the beginning of 18 open is like half of them win, half of them lose the crossover match to get into gold. Yeah, the crossover, it was like the worst hour. Somebody didn't get their snack. Yeah, like the worst hour of volleyball.
Matt Houlihan:Nobody text your girlfriend.
Arielle Houlihan:Everyone turn off your phone, everybody shut up. No bad news right now.
Matt Houlihan:No bad news, yeah, no. In the same vein, I'm going to hop around a little bit from our docket here, but just looking at the parody, seeing how good men's volleyball has gotten, when you think about what's coming next year 18-man roster cap and some of the downstream effects of that, that's one thing I do see. To kick it off is like I you see that those larger rosters, those teams that have, you know, 20 plus guys on it, where did those bench players land? Are those guys finding homes at other programs? That then raises the level of you know, some of those bottom tier miva teams, bottom tier eva teams, uh, to a level where they are even more competitive. Or do we just see a large number of kids who just go like I'm, you know, I'm not playing the game right, I'm taking my ball and I'm going home, or I'm taking my ball and I'm going to play club right, like what do you guys see as some of these downstream effects for this upcoming 18 man roster cap?
Arielle Houlihan:I mean it's. It's going to depend on what, what year these kids are at Like. Are you cutting juniors? Are you cutting freshmen? Are you cutting like kids that are freshmen, sophomores, they have time. The juniors and seniors aren't going anywhere. They're finishing their degree and so I would say that you're going to. It just depends on each team.
Matt Houlihan:You're saying.
Arielle Houlihan:So if they cut a junior or senior, they cut junior and seniors that have been on the team for a while. Those kids are staying at school, like those kids are going to finish their degree at a uh where, honestly, wherever they are, it doesn't even matter. They're so far along in their credits that transferring at that point, like volleyball, helped them get into that school and they're probably there so they can get that degree anyway. This is men's volleyball. This is not like they can just jump around to any school if they want to, and so I would say that if they're older, they're staying and, yes, they may gain their years of eligibility and they could go somewhere else and try and stay fit and, like go to another program.
Matt Houlihan:As a grant transfer, but other than that.
Arielle Houlihan:so you're calling the vast majority of upperclassmen, if they were to be cut from the 18-man roster somewhere else that they're not transferring right away? I would say probably not I think.
Matt Houlihan:I think it's probably institutionally dependent, right? If I'm at a school, that's like I don't really care about the degree from here. I came here for volleyball. I might, I might be transferring, if you think about the top programs, though.
Arielle Houlihan:Of the there aren't a ton of. If you're at a Long Beach or a Hawaii, those are not top academic institutions, but the rest of them are, Correct or incorrect, yeah more or less. I mean, I throw CSUN in there, Okay sure, but even the ones from those schools, if they're upperclassmen and they're getting cut, where are they going to go, those three schools? Maybe they could just flip around to those three schools and if they're not at that level at that point they're going to have a really hard time transferring to another program mid.
Matt Houlihan:Maybe I think the majority of schools are going to be. They've already started or are going to be trimming roster rather than 150 kids this year, but like so yeah, you're just there's not going to be that much space in these top programs because these schools have been planning for it. Let me, let me go to Chad real quick. What do you? What do you? What do you see? Maybe take it from the underclassmen, or even the club player perspective rising into this situation even the community college player.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, I mean, I think you're seeing it in women's volleyball a little bit already, right, where, like, I'd rather pick up a transfer from. Hey, this kid's been a three-year starter at a mid-major. This kid's now ready for the big time to come in and set my team. For one year I lost my senior setter. I wonder if you see that, uh, so kind of these, uh, I don't know, middle of the road, kids moving up right, um, rather than investing in a recruit from you know 16, 17, 18, I I could see it going both ways. I do think it'll be kind of institution dependent If you're at Stanford or UCLA you're a stain?
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, I get it.
Chad Gordon:But if you're a CSUN or something, hey, if I'm the 19th guy I'm still pretty good. But maybe I want to go out to the MIVA or something. Maybe I'm going to get more money from Lewis or more money from Quincy or something. Maybe I'm willing to go down in level a little bit to get on one of these teams and get some money and finish my education there. I don't know.
Chad Gordon:So I think kids will move both up and down and I think the end result to Matt's question is I think it hurts high school recruiting unless you are the bluest, blue chip recruit. Because I mean, who are the top teams? Right, how many of those kids are on the floor that were blue chip kids in the past, like year or two, dylan klein, sean kelly, zach, rama they're at two schools irvine's kids, no. Hawaii's kids, no. Long beach's kids, know, I guess Tread sorry. So unless you're one of these top, top kids if you're 17, is Hawaii looking at you? Or are they looking at somebody from Serbia who's already 19, has already played in a couple of European championships? Or, if they don't have that ability to just bring in somebody from Europe, are they looking at Lewis's second best outside? Are they looking at Loyola's third middle, are they, you know, like you can go shopping, essentially between teams and if you're a top program, oh, hey, man, I'm the third guy I could.
Chad Gordon:I could probably go slide out at Hawaii Like this wouldn't be so bad. So, yeah, I think it'll be a lot of interesting movement between schools as that kind of opens up because there are good players that are going to get cut, yep, and I think bottom line is it's going to hurt some of the kids that we coach at the younger levels I will say.
Arielle Houlihan:There's something that I absolutely love about it, though. I think that there is uh, the more competition is creating a path for the kids that really love this and that want to work their ass off to for some like insanely great stories to come out of it of, like kids that are, like you know what I'm going to? A JC.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm going to start at a JC. I'm going to. I love volleyball, I'm going to work my ass off I mean, I have no guarantee of anything and I'm going to bite my own ego and just keep grinding at this and like these kids are not even close to what their potential is in the sport, like their athleticism, their physicality, their all of these things are not even close. And so for them to make the choice that they're going to get rid of the ego of the signing and the like that stuff, and just say you know what, I'm gonna go to a place where I love this sport and I want to play. That to me is like that's you're weeding out the kids that just want it for the ego yeah, well, it's also.
Matt Houlihan:It's a sorting hat, right like it's. It's a filter automatically, where it's like if you're not, if you don't have the drive to make this happen, yep, we're gonna, we'll find someone else that does.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, totally right, and so like it there there's a part of the is very unfair that like these kids are coming out and they're not competing in their own class anymore, they're competing against 24 year olds and they're competing against kids from bulgar and they're like that's, it's kind of ridiculous.
Arielle Houlihan:But there is a patience that these kids need to have of like go to the place where you think that you're going to get the best opportunity right now to develop as a player and be patient and keep working and don't go for this instant gratification, because that fails people all the time anyways. And so I'm. I'm kind of all for the kids that are like and I know I've got my own kids on my team that are trying to figure it out and it's like the ones that are like I think I want to go to this lower place, I'm like great, like I don't like. I think that that is a impressive move from these kids to say this is where I fit in right now, and if I want to go and move somewhere at some point, if I get to the level that of that like, we will help them do that as well. So, yeah, I think.
Matt Houlihan:I think, as as transferring becomes more and more normalized too, there's there's a couple of different debates that come up, but number one in my eyes the other downstream effect I think we'll see more of is that d3 volleyball is about to get a lot better. I think there's gonna be a lot of d3 schools that are gonna, that are gonna be upgraded when it comes to talent level in their gym just because they're gonna have more opening rather than a division one school that's capped at 18. So the springfields of the world, the mit's the world, like those higher academic ones that can get those kids in, they're already kind of capped just based on the academics.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, but if you've got, you know, if you've got the UC, santa Cruz's and schools like that that are, you know, still good academics but also have men's volleyball and sponsor it, you're going to get a lot of athletes that are looking that route and that's also going to be a pipeline into some higher level programs. The second piece that it brings us back to. It brings me back to is just the idea of how protective do we need to be of the American athletes in this collegiate system, because it is the only thing we have in terms of development for men's volleyball. So where does it fit in in terms of a priority?
Arielle Houlihan:Whose issue is this, though? Is this USA Volleyball's issue? Is this the NCAA's issue? Whose issue is this, though? Is this USA Volleyball's issue? Is this the NCAA's issue? Whose issue is this? To solve?
Matt Houlihan:Here's the question I would have Do you think there's anyone that is lobbying for there to be a cap on international players in volleyball in general? In women's volleyball I see it less because there's so many opportunities You're not taking away.
Chad Gordon:I mean, there's still. If you have a million people, someone's going to be good. Right, all right, but men's volleyball? Hey look, we got 12 dudes. Yeah, shit, fingers crossed, otherwise we're screwed for a quad.
Arielle Houlihan:I would think that this is a. Is there any sport that has a cap?
Matt Houlihan:In NCAA. No, there's no sports that have a cap in NCAA, but there's never been a cap in NCAA. You can have as unlimited amount of walk-ons. There's a cap on scholarships, but now you're capping the total number of athletes.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, yeah. And so it's a whole new can of worms that you're opening up. This is just an evolution of what that does too. Yeah, so yeah is just an evolution of what that does too. Yeah, so yeah. It should be this, honestly should be usa volleyball advocating for the united states volleyball.
Matt Houlihan:Well, yeah, just olympic sports in general, because I'm sure this is not a men's volleyball specific issue. I'm sure you've got squash, I'm I'm sure you got put it in squash territory. There's other sports. Pick a, pick a, an olympic sport. That that's the ncaa sponsors sport, is it no?
Matt Houlihan:uh, you pick a gymnastics, men's gymnastics, or sure pick a smaller, smaller olympic sport and you're gonna have where there's gonna be international talent. That like, if you look at men's volleyball starting spots in ncaa men's volleyball I would love to see the number on what percentage of that is international because it feels it feels like it's more than 20 yeah, that's for sure of the of the top teams.
Chad Gordon:It's heavy I mean?
Matt Houlihan:I mean even across the board. I'd love to see across the board, because there's a lot of schools that have international talent in general, not even top teams I guess.
Chad Gordon:My question then, to play the other side of it is doesn't this make volleyball at the ncaa level worse?
Matt Houlihan:right. So I'm not saying I don't want an all-out for me, I don't want an all-out ban, I just want a. I want a cap but you are correct.
Arielle Houlihan:It does make it worse.
Chad Gordon:I don't know for sure, but my suspicion is the fourth outside on the team isn't coming from Bulgaria, Serbia, Poland, whatever.
Matt Houlihan:Unless, you're Long Beach.
Chad Gordon:Long Beach has 400 guys. That's a different thing. Maybe the top guy's like hey, look, man, you're gonna be the dude. Here's what it's like, nikolov, come on over, your brother played, it's great, you'll enjoy it. Then you can go back to again playing countries, um, thanks. Countries, not teams, countries, not teams, um, and. But I just I don't think like he's not coming over to be like all right, I'm gonna train for like two or three years like work my ass off no I'll get a shot like no man like I.
Chad Gordon:I can get paid to do this today in my country. I don't.
Matt Houlihan:I don't really need this yeah right, it's an experience you want that they're coming from an american experience yeah so I want american education.
Chad Gordon:Sure, sure, uh. But I I'd be curious on what that, what that percentage is for sure of, especially of, like, the non-starting guys. Yeah.
Matt Houlihan:Right, I want to see a roster makeup of every team. You got a guy. You got a guy for that.
Chad Gordon:But yeah, I'd be cautious of, like, how is the game evolving? Well, it's evolving in the way that people like Heno are playing. Well, what if Heno wasn't playing here? Are American players just not going to see that until they graduate now? And then, oh shit, France. Are american players just not going to see that until they graduate now? And then, oh shit, france. No, our u19 team got smoked again I don't, I don't think so.
Matt Houlihan:We're not doing an all-out ban right like how many foreigners does irvine have?
Arielle Houlihan:what's men's soccer doing? I have no clue that's an interesting question because men's soccer in the united united states.
Matt Houlihan:The mls has a cap mls has a cap does men's?
Arielle Houlihan:men's college doesn't have a cap. Men's college doesn't have a cap. Ncaa doesn't have a cap Are coaches recruiting internationally a lot, and is it prevalent in men's soccer in the NCAA?
Chad Gordon:James, we have a second question.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm not sure it's a good question though because the United States is the worst country in the world in soccer. And if they are not recruiting internationally, are kids going in? You got to think they are. And if they are not recruiting internationally, are like kids are going in.
Matt Houlihan:You got to think they are.
Arielle Houlihan:You got to think that they are.
Matt Houlihan:You got to think there's a primarily, predominantly, there's got to be a large number of international.
Arielle Houlihan:And so I got to think that's the easiest sport to correlate here with, like these guys are.
Matt Houlihan:More numbers, though They've got. There's more programs.
Arielle Houlihan:There's more programs but like it's not.
Chad Gordon:I think the professional system for soccer internationally is also a little bit different. If you're the best 11-year-old in your country. You've already been at some academy for three years.
Arielle Houlihan:They come and get you when you're eight.
Matt Houlihan:Not to say the United States. Tennis is a good example as well. From the tennis perspective. It's a ton of Sorry to call it tennis players. It's a ton of like International or just top talent, top talent tennis players that didn't make it. They're like I'm not, I'm not in the top 300.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm not in the top 300.
Matt Houlihan:So I'm going to go get my education paid for, I'm going to go have this experience and they'll be done and that's it. And you'll get a couple that are like odd birds, where it's like, oh, they're like a top 50, but they want that Stanford education, they want that Princeton-Harvard education.
Chad Gordon:I could buy it in tennis because you know, obviously you can play by yourself. Like golf could kind of be that same thing. I think US is usually pretty, we golf all right usually. But yeah, that'd be interesting, like these kind of more individual sports versus the soccer where, hey, I do need to be part of a team. There is a really strong professional model globally. People aren't like all right when you're messy, you can come when you're done with your team. Sure but like.
Matt Houlihan:Sunset. The Sunset League Give us the.
Chad Gordon:David Beckham. But yeah, I mean for everybody else it's like oh, I could just go make more money playing in in the uk, yeah, like why I don't?
Arielle Houlihan:I don't need to go play for this university right like development wise. I wonder what it has done to soccer in this country and what it's doing to yeah all valid points.
Matt Houlihan:I don't think there should be a ban on the. I just look for a cap just to protect that and the number of roster spots because, again, like you want the Heno's, you want the Nikolaos, you want those guys to be able to come here. If that's the experience they're looking for, amazing, that makes the NCAA better.
Arielle Houlihan:It's good for our kids too.
Matt Houlihan:A hundred percent.
Arielle Houlihan:Like I'm not anti-international kids at all, but that's.
Matt Houlihan:But then then you get are going to be strategic with that. If you have a cap, you're like, okay, I can have two, I'm going to get the goddamn best two.
Arielle Houlihan:I can.
Matt Houlihan:I'm not going to just be like ah yeah, I'll take this random Finnish libero You're going to be like I need a Bulgarian right side.
Chad Gordon:I'm definitely bearish on Finnish liberos. Yeah, not a long-term play.
Matt Houlihan:Men's volleyball is feeling like it has become abuse of this uh, I mean, I wouldn't say it's abuse, what I would say it's a combination of the 18 roster cap and the international players. The high school kids are getting screwed right now, yeah, there's no question, they're in a tough squeeze they're in a very tough place.
Arielle Houlihan:Yes, they can work their butts off and they can get there, and they can. They can figure it out. The ones that it's going to weed out, the ones that don't want it and the ones that want it, whatever, but they they're. The cap on international players would make this an equal playing field and it would develop the united states talent it would.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, I don't know if it'd be a fully equal, but it would be it would be a proper incentive do you actually are we making this argument based off of? Like the bottom kids? No of like that, this talent, though, because, like those top kids when they're 18 years old, like is there anybody that's 18 years old that isn't a top kid, that they are going to go and have a career and go to the national team at some point?
Chad Gordon:you're're saying, you know if there's, if I'm the third outside, you know after you know, heno and these guys flexing, you know, hey, obviously flexing.
Arielle Houlihan:Let's say we make the international role yeah, international role to cap, do you? That opens up spots for however many kids to come into this system. Now for an NCAA men's volleyball. Those are not the blue chip recruits. Those are not. There's a whole group of them that have already gone. They're already going to get there because they're bad.
Matt Houlihan:The best we're talking no, no, no, I'll counter that right away.
Arielle Houlihan:Okay.
Matt Houlihan:Take, take Sebastian Sonny on Long Beach. He's the. He's the third slash.
Arielle Houlihan:Fourth outside option oh, you're talking about playing time in games.
Matt Houlihan:I'm talking about top American talent being on the floor for top American programs. You got Sebastian Zani, so I would argue so, Tiras gets injured so he starts against UC Irvine. Sure Struggles. They bring in the Bulgarian outside after him.
Arielle Houlihan:No, I get it. I'm saying You're saying that Americans saying that's a blue chip.
Matt Houlihan:Recruit right there. That is. That is, behind three international outside hitters.
Arielle Houlihan:Okay, you're, just you're. I mean, we're not talking about practice time, we're talking about just game time there.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, but that's, I mean, that's the. The incentive is that you that's what you're looking for. We're looking for overall development.
Arielle Houlihan:Yes, obviously Like being in a great practice gym, so you can make the argument that you're in a better practice gym and those kids are getting better than they Sure.
Matt Houlihan:You could totally make that argument as like that's the only thing but the incentive?
Arielle Houlihan:That's a question mark for me.
Matt Houlihan:The reason I say the cap is because you need to provide the incentive. The incentive is that you want to get the best overall team.
Arielle Houlihan:So if I'm a coach right now, and I'm in that, I'm going international, 100%, I'm going international, I'm going transfers.
Matt Houlihan:I'm looking at JUCO. Yeah, those are the things I want older kids more experience than I want it.
Chad Gordon:What do I want a 16-year-old for?
Matt Houlihan:Yeah.
Arielle Houlihan:There's no reason provide the incentive.
Matt Houlihan:So now you need to build the pipeline of an American kids in your team, because that is, at bare minimum, five of your seven starters are going to have to be American Now. Now the incentive is properly aligned, where you're looking for the best international talent, but you're also looking for the best American talent and you're working them all in.
Chad Gordon:Got it. I got a question for you. Why aren't our 16 year olds as good as everybody else's 16-year-olds?
Arielle Houlihan:Great question Chad.
Chad Gordon:And we can cut this part because obviously this hits a little bit closer to home.
Arielle Houlihan:Let's leave it in.
Chad Gordon:But why would you go and recruit an 18-year-old out of Serbia? Why aren't our 18-year-olds on par? I mean, I get, maybe, hey, we've got a couple at the very top, sure, the blue blue, blue, blue blue, whatever. But why is it like, okay, I got through these three. I didn't get these three, I'm going to serbia let's talk about it sure we can. We have editing saw we can cut it later.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, we don't even have no, I think it's a great question and I think we for sure could dive super deep into it. My, I'm not fully prepped on them, but my biggest immediate thought is just going to be academy system.
Arielle Houlihan:No kidding, right Like you've got kids. Best kids play with each other.
Matt Houlihan:There's a story. Let's just remove the name of the athlete. But let's just say the athlete comes in on a recruiting trip and the first question I ask is how many times do we train a day? Oh, we train once a day. Okay, but when else? Day okay, but but when else? Like what else do we try? Once a day because I've been training, because I've been training two days a day, two day, two times a day, every day, for five days a week.
Matt Houlihan:We lift weights we lift weights six days a week, and on the off days we do all the fit like their whole life has been training.
Matt Houlihan:So you got, you got a bunch of athletes who've been doing this as a job since they were to. You know, for soccer it's like eight. For for other sports, it's like yeah, they started 10, 11, 12, yep, right, they've been doing it as a job. They have more time under under tension. Right, they've just been doing the game longer and so they then play against guys who are higher level.
Arielle Houlihan:Not to say that our system is broken because the United States wins more medals than any other country in the world and we are producing athletes at the highest level. I believe that men's volleyball is a broken system at the younger level and it is not putting the, creating the space for I mean, yes, the academies is a great, like the academies is. Is the reason, like get kids playing more at the highest level, that they can more often? I think that that is nobody argues that that is wrong I'd settle for just more often yeah, yeah, 100 medium level sure
Matt Houlihan:um do you have an idea on?
Chad Gordon:it. No, I think the academy system is is probably the biggest, like, I think, look at who's come up through the club, right, it's these guys who started younger, yeah, or they had older sisters. You always bet on the kid that's got an older sibling because they've been beaten up during pepper sessions or one-on-one playing over the top of the couch for five years before they get in some organized setting. Yeah, um, you know, I think there's a. There's a smaller piece. Right, I think the time under tension is probably the biggest piece, for sure, but I think there's a smaller piece of. You know, what's incentivized in the us?
Chad Gordon:right is usually competition exactly and and for us, competition, if we're being frank, at the youth sporting level, is a financial incentive. Right, for tournaments and clubs and organizations, because this stuff, it doesn't get cheaper every year. Right, that acai bowl that we're joking about? Yep, why is that 19? Yeah, it's a money business. Yeah, right, so you know, do, do our 12 year olds need to be playing on a regulation size cord and all this stuff? Yeah, no.
Chad Gordon:And then you go over to outrigger and it's like oh, all the kids just play on the baby court because they're babies and this is proportional. And oh, they get really good at spiking when they're 12 because they don't have to hit on a net. Why would I need to hit it up? That doesn't help me at all. I think there is some stuff like that. When you hear about all these European teams or you watch how they train, it's like, oh, why is France so good? I don't know. They play threes all the time, so everybody, when the ball comes in, they can do it. Yeah, of course. You walk into my practice, my middle's like oh, hey, man, like.
Chad Gordon:I can't set Like hey you know, they double the ball Like they want to set it, but like then they chuck it and it's like oh man, you know, like I'm a middle, like I don't like, no, like.
Arielle Houlihan:You're a volleyball player.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, exactly, man, like it's always that thing and compete, you know is, is that the best thing to worry about for a 12 year old? Um, you know, and maybe if they're in an academy or something and they're a professional, they're being paid to go, like, win english premier league games. Yeah sure, man, 12 year old, hey, put on, put on your boots and like let's, let's go, do this thing. But I think there's, there's that element of it too which maybe slows down some of these kids early on.
Matt Houlihan:For sure. There's the great one, the great excerpt in Outliers. I believe it's the tennis club, but there's a famous tennis academy that essentially doesn't allow kids to compete until like 15. Yeah, like they'll join at 9, but you don't get to play in a tournament until you're 15. Yeah, and they just train and they do it. Yeah, they do it, do it differently.
Chad Gordon:You play. You play other games right.
Matt Houlihan:Like, but you don't like.
Chad Gordon:Hey, there's no score.
Matt Houlihan:We're not going to. We're not going to AAU national championships.
Chad Gordon:The point is to have fun and get better and develop like.
Matt Houlihan:Hey, put into this would be the reason why America has so much success at the Olympics and, specifically, can overcompensate for some of these other events, like men's volleyball, is. America is a hugely populous country.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah.
Matt Houlihan:Like we have numbers, that's the other part. So numbers, that's the other part. So we have numbers and so we're able to overcome because we're going to get kids.
Arielle Houlihan:It's like we're able to sign up for every division.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, yeah, seriously we can do all of them we'll do all the sports well, yeah, but no, you just have. You have a lot of kids. At some point, one of those kids pans out to be the guy. That's like I love this I'm doing it. This is this is everything I want to put my effort into. And they grind and they find a way, and those are the kids, those are the ones that do and they're physically gifted?
Matt Houlihan:Yes, and they find, you find that path. So we get lucky in that sense. But it's not, as we've seen, like that's not a guaranteed gold medal every year. It just puts us in the ballpark.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah Right, park of talent but numbers yeah where are we going to be at in terms of the overall development? That's the question. And then the last little one is also what the mind can see, the mind can achieve. There's no pro league here, and so that's the other aspect that I think is a downside, for men's volleyball at least, is, and when you compare it to right, what is the french, french kid look at like, what does the bulgarian kid look at? They have these pro leagues that they're looking to, and when they're young, they see that and there is an incentive for them. Where they're like, I see a path for myself, whereas men's volleyball the path is not as clear, and we're lucky.
Arielle Houlihan:Once you see the path you're like I don't know about that we're just like, in a sense, that that doesn't make any sense. Actually, we're just like, in a sense, that that doesn't make any sense I'm going to make less money.
Chad Gordon:It's going to be cloudy and sad and all my friends live.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, Nine, ten hours oh man, all of my holidays will be spent in a cold, snowy hellscape.
Arielle Houlihan:God damn it. Finland. Big bank, shout out, big bank.
Chad Gordon:Shout out to big bank, shout out Estonia, malibu.
Matt Houlihan:There you go Not the smoothest of transitions, but I do want to bring us to the next little topic here, because it is a big one and it is in the line of a lot of internationals. We got Long Beach at Hawaii this week and it is probably I think most people had this circled on the calendar as like the biggest weekend of the year for in terms of matchups. Hawaii has sold out saturday and there I'd say this I looked right before we started recording at hawaii, you got the, you got the negalov show coming to town. Uh, they've got about 500 tickets left for the friday night match and saturday is fully sold out. So you're looking at almost 11 000 people in the stands for these two matchups with you, you know honestly, huge implications.
Matt Houlihan:I think Hawaii got caught overlooking CSUN this past weekend, and so they need they need a, a feather in their cap when it comes to a win, I think, if Hawaii beats Long Beach, I'm keeping them at five still.
Chad Gordon:Honestly six Sorry.
Arielle Houlihan:Did you really need?
Matt Houlihan:that foresight? I't know. Yeah, come on. Come on. No, it's good, it's gonna be huge, like for hawaii. They've bad loss to stanford. They've lost uh, they lost a csun, they lost. What was their other loss? I?
Matt Houlihan:think just gonna go off yeah, I mean that we'll do our predictions for sure. But if Hawaii wants an at-large, I think they need a dub Give yeah, because USC was their last Okay. So I think they need a dub in order to kind of Irvine getting a win against Long Beach that's huge for them and then just kind of flushed a little bit of that away with the loss of San Diego.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm taking Hawaii. Let's go. Yeah, let's go.
Matt Houlihan:Sorry, I'm taking Long Beach. Let's go predictions, let's start us off area. We'll go around the horn real quick. Long Beach, forever you go. Long Beach to two wins you want to give us that's my.
Arielle Houlihan:That's the new sign for Long Beach forever, Uh, pocket, uh. I think they'd give him a real, a real crowd like this is a real crowd. There's gonna be 10 000 people there, like that's great yeah, I think he's just gonna be like yelling at the abyss it'd be like vnl.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, he's like this is the closest thing to like an arena that he actually plays yeah, totally.
Matt Houlihan:I think he's like yeah yeah, yeah, you're going two wins Long Beach.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, sure.
Chad Gordon:All right, chad, I'm taking Long Beach twice. I think UH gets a set or two, maybe on night one. I think Long Beach gets it, and then I think Long Beach rolls night two. Okay, I think they're going to be like okay, no, we're fine.
Arielle Houlihan:That's specific.
Matt Houlihan:I'm going with a Hawaii split and you're thinking Hawaii takes the first. I'm thinking Hawaii takes the first.
Chad Gordon:And then Long Beach is like let's put our big boy pants on.
Matt Houlihan:Yes, I'm thinking you're going to have and it's not going to be. I agree, I think Nikolov, I think Nikolov is going to shine in this moment for sure. I think he's going to have a huge weekend. But I think we're going to have a huge weekend, but I think we're going to have some cracks show, just like we saw against Irvine. I think there's going to be some cracks showing a little bit from the offensive production side.
Arielle Houlihan:Sorry, nikola versus Tread, though Sorry.
Matt Houlihan:It's going to be good.
Arielle Houlihan:I got Nikola.
Matt Houlihan:Those are big bodies. That's where my gut goes, Honestly. I could see Long Beach sweeping, yes.
Arielle Houlihan:You can't see Hawaii sweeping I don't see Hawaii sweeping.
Matt Houlihan:I don't see that, I don't either, but I think there's going to be enough energy and fire for.
Arielle Houlihan:Hawaii to get one. I will say, if Hawaii were to sweep, which we all don't think is going to happen it would make for a very interesting postseason. So I'm rooting for an interesting postseason, but I don't know.
Matt Houlihan:Also on the note of this, I did some research this week. I want to do the Manning cast. I want to do a live stream of it.
Arielle Houlihan:Should we do it this weekend?
Matt Houlihan:Yes, these matches are at 10 pm.
Arielle Houlihan:I know to do a live stream of it.
Matt Houlihan:Should we do it this weekend? Yes, these matches are at 10pm. I know they're late, but that also works for me because the kids are asleep.
Arielle Houlihan:It's all on Chad, then I'm thinking about setting up a man cast.
Chad Gordon:There are only two mannings usually on the cast.
Arielle Houlihan:No, there's a third manning, you don't even need to drive down Chad.
Matt Houlihan:I figured out how we can zoom you in. You can just be in bed.
Arielle Houlihan:It doesn't work. You have to be here. I don't know about that. Why don't you guys sleep over?
Chad Gordon:We'll see. It's on Loppy. I'm going to be asleep.
Matt Houlihan:Let it be known, I've been toying around with it. I did a little pretend version cast of a Big West softball game to see if I could stream the ESPN.
Arielle Houlihan:Plus showing, excuse me, a Big West softball game Big West softball game yeah Big.
Matt Houlihan:West softball game. It was like Davis and someone else, I don't know but, I just made sure I was making sure like they would let me stream.
Arielle Houlihan:Were you commentating on it.
Matt Houlihan:No, I just had my face up and I did a little test run just to, just to check it out. But yeah, playing around with that, I think that's the, I think that's the future. I think that's the future of the coaches group chat.
Arielle Houlihan:Okay, tcg broadcast um well, is there anything else?
Matt Houlihan:yes, there's one other. One other thing I think we need to bring up. Damn it.
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah, I know sorry I'm bored big news big news in the women's volleyball we gotta shout out the girls, because women's rights yeah, stuff, women, yeah, this is, this is our title.
Matt Houlihan:Nine portion of the show we had a big retirement announcement.
Arielle Houlihan:Another one bites the dust in she's just biting some other dust. Yeah, she's biting different dust yeah.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, retiring from Creighton after 20 plus seasons as the head coach 22 season 22 and she is rumored to be taking a spot at love. Anyone, anyone, have any thoughts on this? You want to kick us off, erin.
Arielle Houlihan:I heard a rumor that big changes are happening at Love soon. Like big, big changes. How big, big, like the biggest.
Matt Houlihan:Wow, those are big changes Like they're buying the PVF. No that would be the biggest in my eyes.
Arielle Houlihan:Big changes, like shifts, are happening, and that could be one of the shifts. She could be one of the shifts she could be shifting what would she be shifting?
Chad Gordon:to into a big, big role I don't know, I don't it says admin job.
Arielle Houlihan:I think she has said yeah, I think she but admin could be anything right yeah, but I think it's not a coaching role not a coaching role, but I know I'm I'm not talking about coaching roles.
Chad Gordon:I think it makes a ton of sense. Find me someone more wildly liked than KBB oh yeah, and so yeah, whatever her new thing is over there, I'm sure it's good for that league and hopefully good for the sport in general, and I'd be shocked if it's not a long-term positive for them. So I'm.
Arielle Houlihan:If you were gonna go like this and lead love pvf, which where are you?
Chad Gordon:I can't, I'm not allowed to vote.
Matt Houlihan:Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, I'm staying right in the middle, I think I.
Arielle Houlihan:I think I go here slightly to love so I I go slightly to love that too I don't go, I don't.
Matt Houlihan:It's like pvf is still there, they're. I'm telling you they're gonna. These, these two leagues are gonna merge at some point.
Arielle Houlihan:Pvf makes you like the crowds.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah, just playing in bigger. They're playing in bigger stadiums of crap too.
Arielle Houlihan:Somebody said to me like no, the the crowds that love her. I'm like, have you seen it?
Matt Houlihan:like no, no, yeah, the crowds. The crowds are not great at love thus far that's what I've seen. I also just want, I want love. The part of me still is just caught up on like the love branding I want. Give me like a true pro model. That's one thing. Like pvf, do I love all of their team names? No, but can I like at least get behind? Okay, I know who this. The omaha supernova is great.
Arielle Houlihan:Okay, that's I know the indy fury yeah is that right the indy ignite.
Matt Houlihan:That's. That's the Columbus.
Chad Gordon:Fury Good try Selling, I thought. I thought love was going to that model. Eventually, though, yeah. For some of these things like kickstart the.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm ready for love to go to that model.
Chad Gordon:Yeah, it is I mean KBB.
Matt Houlihan:Can you make that happen? And your new admin role is your new admin role the director of money to pro team names?
Arielle Houlihan:Yeah.
Matt Houlihan:Oh, man, and your new admin role. Is your new admin role? The director of money.
Chad Gordon:Pro team names yeah, oh man. I mean, I think to get something off the ground, you've got to guarantee some stuff to some people so that I don't leave my job in Italy and then come play here and then get cut week two. Yeah, but at the same time it's like this is a little bit odd, right Like the league is placing players in markets that work for the league. But you know like usually you got to be like a 10 year veteran and be like hey man, I don't really want to get traded to Detroit, I want to go to Miami or whatever Right Like so.
Matt Houlihan:Yeah.
Arielle Houlihan:I'm tired.
Matt Houlihan:Well, on that note, Ariel has bedtime.
Arielle Houlihan:Title nine portion over episode 11.
Chad Gordon:That's a wrap. This is why I'm not going to make the 10 pm.